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Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
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Rippling Hurst
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Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
on:
February 03, 2010, 01:46:52 PM »
It seems that GM is aggressively pursuing Toyota's sales, with ads offering 2 grand for those who were about to buy a Toyota to buy GM instead. I have no problem with that, albeit it looks like it lacks class.
Now the Government, who owns GM, is going after Toyota, as if the issue itself is not enough to hurt its sales. Fair enough, but I wonder if he didn't go a bit far here:
Quote
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has absolutely blasted the Japanese giant, calling it
"a little safety deaf"
and noting he was upset that NHTSA officials had to fly to Japan "to remind Toyota management about its legal obligations." That's just the tip of the spear stuff, too. Check out the shaft:
Quote
Since questions were first raised about possible safety defects, we have been pushing Toyota to take measures to protect consumers. While Toyota is taking responsible action now, it unfortunately took an enormous effort to get to this point.
We're not finished with Toyota
and are continuing to review possible defects and monitor the implementation of the recalls.
It appears a bit extreme to me, specially given Toyota fair handling of past recalls. And he kept on going:
CBS NEws:
La Hood: Stop driving Toyota vehicles.
:
Quote
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is telling owners of recalled Toyotas to stop driving the vehicles and get them fixed.
LaHood's warning came Wednesday in testimony before a House Appropriations subcommittee on transportation. LaHood says his advice to owners is to "s
top driving it
. Take it to a Toyota dealer because they believe they have a fix for it."
Do I smell a conflict of interest here? And all this as it's about to start a Congressional Hearing, lead by two Detroit Congressmen with ties to the UAW. I expect Toyota to be in trouble again very soon.
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #1 on:
February 03, 2010, 02:03:04 PM »
I've heard the same from Honda & Nissan in this area. There is a similar rebate for people trading a Toyota for a Nissan. (I think its an additional $2k).
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Rippling Hurst
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #2 on:
February 03, 2010, 03:59:42 PM »
Okay, but that is not central to my point. Is the government regulating the industry and removing it's ceo and basically running a private enterprise.
If anything, GM should be the only one refraining from such rebates. But that does not create the awkward situation, it's the unreasonable statements of the regulator that creates the issue. Why he should say I should stop driving my Sequoia? Can he prove that Toyota is "safety deaf?", or was it just name calling? THAT is the point.
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Ohmster
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #3 on:
February 03, 2010, 06:00:22 PM »
Quote from: Rippling Hurst on February 03, 2010, 03:59:42 PM
If anything, GM should be the only one refraining from such rebates.
Yikes, we agree!
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #4 on:
February 03, 2010, 07:00:13 PM »
I'll keep my Toyota thank you, though I can't say they make them like they used to...
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #5 on:
February 03, 2010, 07:26:06 PM »
Quote from: Rippling Hurst on February 03, 2010, 03:59:42 PM
Okay, but that is not central to my point. Is the government regulating the industry and removing it's ceo and basically running a private enterprise.
If anything, GM should be the only one refraining from such rebates. But that does not create the awkward situation, it's the unreasonable statements of the regulator that creates the issue. Why he should say I should stop driving my Sequoia? Can he prove that Toyota is "safety deaf?", or was it just name calling? THAT is the point.
well exCUSE me for getting off topic
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Rippling Hurst
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #6 on:
February 04, 2010, 12:32:18 PM »
I didn't mean to press too much, but you're excused.
Last night, wife was asked by a friend at work and confimed her answer with me: What's the big deal, if it pedal gets stuck to the floor, I'll just put it into neutral, right?
I said: Yes, that's it, glad you asked. You can brake it too but if you unnecessarily brake it in panic, people WILL hit you. At cruising speeds just let it loose momentum. You're not going to break anything putting into neutral at 40mph or 80mph or more...Now if you're at a parking lot speed and it gets stuck into a low gear, you may have less time to loose momentum, and then I think you'd have to brake it. And if it fails, it's a part that breaks and it will be easily spotted, Toyota will *have to* pay.
She: Okay, but it's not like I'm going to die then. I don't see why he said we should keep the car in the garage.
Me: However, people can be stupid, and *you* can actually drive. Also, well, the Secretary also "forgot" to disclaim that he works for the parent "company" that owns a Toyota competitor...
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #7 on:
February 04, 2010, 01:39:21 PM »
Aren't all these case DBW anyway? Doesn't it pull the throttle if the brake is applied?? I know it does on the Prius (yes, I tried to burn rubber in my mother's "tree hugger" mobile)
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Mike_TX
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
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Reply #8 on:
February 04, 2010, 08:17:47 PM »
Quote from: Turboale on February 04, 2010, 01:39:21 PM
Aren't all these case DBW anyway? Doesn't it pull the throttle if the brake is applied?? I know it does on the Prius (yes, I tried to burn rubber in my mother's "tree hugger" mobile)
I've heard Toyotas don't cut the throttle when the brake is applied.
However, one of the car nags tried some tests and found they could floor the throttle and still stop the car from highways speeds just with the brakes (against a racing engine). Pretty well fries the brakes, but, hey ...
.
.
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #9 on:
February 06, 2010, 09:27:09 AM »
Quote from: Turboale on February 04, 2010, 01:39:21 PM
Aren't all these case DBW anyway? Doesn't it pull the throttle if the brake is applied?? I know it does on the Prius (yes, I tried to burn rubber in my mother's "tree hugger" mobile)
Haha ^^^ Answer below:
Quote from: Mike_TX on February 04, 2010, 08:17:47 PM
I've heard Toyotas don't cut the throttle when the brake is applied.
However, one of the car nags tried some tests and found they could floor the throttle and still stop the car from highways speeds just with the brakes (against a racing engine). Pretty well fries the brakes, but, hey ...
That is correct. BMW has a WOT+Brake=engine cutoff, toyota does not currently. They have, to my understanding, began an ECU flash program that does exactly that (if WOT+Brake, brake wins).
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oztiks
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The war on Toyota
«
Reply #10 on:
February 06, 2010, 09:44:28 AM »
The war on Toyota
Quote
There can be little doubt that Toyota, the world's greatest auto maker in recent years, has become the victim of much more than another typical out-of-control All-American media frenzy. When top-line political gamesman such as U.S. Transport Secretary Ray LaHood, Congressional pit bull Henry Waxman, and conniving United Auto Workers executives start piling on, this is clearly much bigger sport that the usual ritual public lynching of auto executives, a routine occurrence in Washington. The attack on Toyota, at this time of U.S. economic weakness and populist excess, is fast turning into a great American nationalist assault on a foreign corporation, an economic war.
The White House has denied any such motivation on the part of the United States. But that denial lacks credibility. While it may be technically true that President Obama's team didn't explicitly reach a decision to target Toyota, nobody in this crowd needs a presidential order to turn the Japanese auto giant's Sudden Unintended Acceleration (SUA) problem into a national industrial advantage for the United States. The owners of union-dominated Government Motors can spot a strategic economic opportunity without waiting for the memo from head office.
California Congressman Henry Waxman swung into action, using recent anecdotal reports of sudden acceleration as a pretext for extended assaults on Toyota and its management. The UAW has joined the project as part of its campaign against Toyota's closure of a unionized California plant.
Wednesday you could practically see the calculating wheels spinning under the hood of Mr. LaHood's cranium when the transportation secretary told a committee that Toyota owners should simply "stop driving" their Toyotas. He later claimed to have misspoken, but then said much the same thing. If Toyota drivers are worried, they can take their vehicles to a dealer where, as Mr. LaHood knows, there was nothing the dealer could do since it is expected to take weeks if not months for Toyota to "fix" the alleged cause of Toyota's alleged sudden acceleration problem.
Toyota shares continued their SUA plunge Wednesday, ending just below $74, down from recent highs of $92. The company has lost $23-billion in market capitalization since the crisis began.
At this stage, there is little hard data on whether Toyota actually has a sudden acceleration problem. The company is not helping matters with its apparent scrambling to come up with an explanation and a "fix" for a phenomenon that has been cropping up in auto industry lore for decades. No maker is immune, but Toyota is seems to have been caught in the latest run of reports. All of the reports are anecdotal accounts of out-of-control vehicles for reasons that nobody can ever adequately explain. The latest stories, including one of a Tennessee man who says his 2003 Camry suddenly jolted into a parking space, become instant media legends.
Of the millions of cars on the road, only a few hundred anecdotal reports exist, making it far more likely that other things are happening, including driver mistakes and even fluke occurrences that no amount of corporate fixing can avoid. Usually the stories fade and the auto companies move on, although Audi famously became victim of a SUA craze a couple of decades ago, losing massive market share even though no problem was ever identified beyond driver error.
Toyota's experience looks like it could become even worse than Audi's, mainly because bashing Toyota serves the national economic interest of the United States, U.S. auto makers, union leaders and others whose economic ideas tend toward nationalism. U.S. jobs for U.S. workers employed by U.S. companies.
Is the media involved? The extent of exaggeration surrounding Toyota's problem may be just a little larger than the usual media frenzy. In a typical over-the-top anti-Toyota item, famed author James B. Stewart Wednesday told Wall Street Journal readers to "avoid - or sell - Toyota Motor shares." His reason is that Toyota may have misrepresented the cause of a now notorious crash of a Toyota Lexus ES-350 in San Diego last August. Toyota said the Lexus crash, in which four occupants were killed following a frantic 911 call, was due to a faulty floor mat.
The official accident report by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration makes clear that the floor mat is the likely culprit and Toyota may not quite be responsible. The mat in the Lexus was "not secured" properly, and it was also the wrong mat for that Lexus model. There also appeared to be no notable issues with the accelerator pedal itself.
Another newspaper treatment of the Lexus event, in The New York Times, also treated the San Diego crash as a function of a Toyota acceleration problem that has more causes than a poorly-maintained and wrongly installed floor mat. So far, however, nobody has proven this to be true. Even less clear is how the fix Toyota has announced - involving a new part for the accelerator pedal - is even related to the problem. Was Toyota panicked into doing something - anything - when faced with a looming full-bore economic attack from the United States Economic Marines, with the media imbedded as part of the crusade?
Read more:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2519112#ixzz0elazKE9x
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Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
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oztiks
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #11 on:
February 06, 2010, 09:50:38 AM »
More:
AutoCar: Toyota problems? Driver problems!
Guardian: Stop the Toyota hysteria
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Rippling Hurst
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
«
Reply #12 on:
February 06, 2010, 11:13:56 AM »
Great read, thanks!
That Lexus with the wrong mats and loose is a tragic story, but the hysteria is not going to help one bit to clarify matter...it could have been driver error, but you know, it's a "dog bites man" story.
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
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Reply #13 on:
February 08, 2010, 07:47:56 AM »
This happend to audi in the 90s. People driving through their garages because the gas pedal was too big and the brake pedal was too small. Give me an f'n break. There are way too many people out to get a quick buck here in the states. And we wonder why car companies never want to send us "fun" models...
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Re: Toyota recall, the US Gov and GM
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Reply #14 on:
February 08, 2010, 09:25:55 AM »
Touche. Unfortunately this is already being related by the media to the Audi event and they are saying that the Audi issue was nothing compared to the significance of this. Pretty sad.
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