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May 24, 2012, 06:46:02 AM

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[Liquid Platinum M35]

Found this on Autospies, and I know some of these ideas have been thrown around as ways Infiniti could inject a little more life into the line-up. 


INFINITI Wants Blood – The Plan to Beat BMW, Mercedes and Lexus Performance Divisions
Product planners at Infiniti are aware of the voids that exist in their current lineup.  The G35/G37 does double duty against both the BMW 3 and 5 Series, and the M35/M45 serves as the current large car competing with the BMW 5 Series as well as the Mercedes E-Class, Lexus GS and Jaguar XF.  The FX35 & FX50, EX35 and QX56 do a good of competing with the sport utility offerings of BMW, Lexus and Mercedes, however there is still a void in the lineup planners are getting closer to fill as new engines and platforms are coming to market.

The void we are talking about, a competitor to the M cars from BMW, the AMG cars from Mercedes-Benz and the new kid on the block, the F car from Lexus.

AutoSpies.com has not missed this void either, and bring you 2 concepts that will bring to market a viable player in the factory tuned specialty market.  A profitable segment that Infiniti wants to be a part of.

Currently within the Nissan/Infiniti lineup two platforms exist which would help defray a large portion of the development cost, and allow Infiniti the opportunity to field cars capable of running with cars bearing the letters M, AMG and f.

G50s
The Infiniti G50s sports sedan and coupe is a flared fender monster motor variation of the current G37 sedan and coupe.  In the G50s setup, the new 5.0 liter 390hp V8 from the just introduced FX50 is shoehorned into the engine bay of the G body giving us a 400hp+ car that based would run 0-60 in less than 5 seconds, and that could blast through the ¼-mile under 13 seconds nipping at the heals of the M3, C63 and the IS-f.

For those of you who doubt the viability or feasibility of such an animal, consider this, the FX50 is based on the FM (front midship) platform, the same platform as the current G37.  Only minor modification is necessary to allow the G to accept the V8 of the FX, and with enhanced breathing and exhaust, the 5.0 V8 can easily be massaged to over 400hp.



The beauty of such a proposal from Infiniti is given the size of the G37 sedan, this car could serve dual roles competing not only with the smaller M3, but with the M5 as well given the fact that in terms of size, the G is closer to the BMW 5 Series than it is the 3 series.

And as if that isn’t enough, consider the second proposal…

Q-GT
The much talked about 4-door version of Nissan’s GT-R.  Imagine a car that drives off the showroom floor capable of beating ALL offerings from BMW, Mercedes and Lexus in terms of acceleration and performance.  This factory 4-door will be capable of running with names like Ferrari and Lamborghini; of course you couldn’t bring 3 friends along for the ride in either the Ferrari or Lamborghini like you could with the Q-GT from Infiniti.



And Infiniti knows they wouldn’t have a tough time at all selling either vehicle, and the exciting thing is the vast majority of engineering work has already been completed making time to market relatively short.

The biggest hurdle now is deciding which concept would best make its mark in the marketplace.  The advantage to the G50s concept is cost.  The components and driveline system for the Q-GT is extremely expensive.  Fitting the G with the 5.0 V8 would be the more economical route, and would bring to market a vehicle similar in size to the M5 and E63 that is priced comparably to the M3, C63 and the IS-f.



Secondly, but just as important is the establishment of the performance orientated division.  Lexus took the plunge last year by introducing their “f” division, Infiniti needs to establish their skunk works division and start developing a brand name that people lust after.  Nissan currently has the Nismo division, but drawing from that heritage has the potential to create a down market persona for a brand that Infiniti wants to be thought of as world class.  This is an area that is open for discussion, Infiniti does not have a huge heritage to fall back on, and as such suggestions are accepted as to what to call their performance division.

Infiniti has all the makings of becoming a true player across a full spectrum of vehicle offerings, will it pull the trigger and bring to market one of these two sports sedans, and if so which one should it be.  Does the economical engineering cost of the G50s win out over the more expensive Q-GT, or should the Q-GT be the halo car for Infiniti like the GT-R is for Nissan?

Or should they both be brought to market?


Autospies

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

[oztiks]

Loving that second pic!

[helldorado]

The reality is both a G50 (just doesn't sound good as a name though) and Q-GT would be feasible.  They wouldn't compete with each for sales and the G50 would be extremely inexpensive to bring to the market all things considered.  Hell, even the drivetrains are identical across all the Infiniti vehicles.  The only thing they need to do is shoehorn it in there, make sure it fits and is properly cooled then tune it!

[Liquid Platinum M35]

^agreed... obviously the trans can handle it if the engine is in the FX and will probably be in the M.     The Q-GT... a little more difficult as they have to design a body for that vehicle and kinda start from the ground up, cause the infiniti version of the GTR wouldn't really be similar.  The G50 (i like it cause it sounds like 350) is practically done as is... like you said just needs the engine.

[helldorado]

Previously, Infiniti had asked for a V8 version of the G for NA.  Nissan denied it.

[Liquid Platinum M35]

------- skanks... (sorry, inside joke)

[Rippling Hurst]

WHAT? 

INFINITI Wants Blood – The Plan to Beat BMW, Mercedes and Lexus Performance Divisions

  I had a good laught with that one.  Beat WHERE?  in what race??  heh.  Infiniti isn't in any that I know of!

I'm sorry, but the appeal of the BMW's M series is the racing heritage.  The pedigree.  The know how to win a RACE.  The G50 can be an awsome car to drive, etc., but unless Infiniti puts it to RACE in say, Daytona, ALMS, Trans AM, 24h of Le Mans, DTM (Deutsche Tourenwagen Meistershaft), WTCC (World Touring Car Chapionship), BTCC (British Touring) etc, then I'd say there is no way Infiniti is COMPETING with BMW or Mercedes. 

The BMW M3 is a champ.  It's the car of choice of many for LeMans (GTS-1 class?), for instance.  Now IF, and when people, I mean real private RACERS, turn down an M3 to race with an Infiniti (put your fancy name here, as Lexus IS-F), then I'd say Infiniti will have have a real competitor to the M3. 

This is the M3 that runs on the ALMS series.  Privateers can buy this car, I believe.  Will there be any similar Infiniti available?  I'd buy season tickets to watch!  THAT would be the good news!



The day I see a G50 in this environment, then I can agree that Infiniti does have an M series beater.

Until then, the G50 or whatever will be just a be a G35 with a big engine, an awesome car, granted, but that's it.  I'd buy it, but only if I hadn't have the money to buy the M5, or if I was interested in other aspects of the car (practicality, value, etc - not racing heritage/aftermarket support, etc.).

The lack of involvement of Infiniti in racing is amazing, IMHO.  They have lots of know how on how to develop a luxury car, now they need to learn how to develop the sport car side of the equation.

P.S. Congrats for BMW's first win in Formula 1, Canadian GP 2008.   THAT was awesome.  Toyota is there too, invest 200million/year in the last 4-5 years.  This is great.  Mercedes is there since the 50's, so no racing heritage problem there, I'd say.  Where is Nissan/Infiniti?


My 02.

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

[Liquid Platinum M35]

ban?  j/k

I think that Nissan is kinda following your logic.  They don't see any heritage in Infiniti racing so they think, lets keep it luxury and make some faster performance oriented Nissans.  Its really a shame bc there's obviously a market for luxury high performance (vs luxury performance like the G or IS, TL-S) for example the IS-F.  Problem is the IS-F really hasn't sold that well.  I think its meeting goals, but its not selling like an M3 or a Mustang Cobra.  So infiniti has to keep that in mind.  You gotta consider the people who post on forums are the super-enthusiasts!  Of course we want the best and more power, 90% of G and M owners are probable happy with what is available now and could care less if there was more.  There's probably more M35s on the road than M45s, but probably more M45's on the forums than M35s.  So its not a true demographic of the buying public. 

I KNOW that there's more G35 journeys on the road than G35S's and G37 coupes. 

[helldorado]

Infiniti doesn't race, Nismo does.  Plus they compete in the Japanese circuits, predominantly in Super GT, not the European ones.   Everything Nissan races in has practical applications and roots back to their street cars too.  All their events are using modified factory chassis and engines.

http://www.nissan-motorsports.com/ENN/RACE/2008/SUPERGT/

GTR GT500






The previous JGTC Nismo Z GT500

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

Agent 00J may have been reading our threads....

[Rippling Hurst]

If Infiniti does not race, only Nissan, that's a mistake - many of the luxury car appeal lies in its racing heritage: Ferrari, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Mercedes, et..

If Infiniti is not racing in Europe that is a mistake, IMHO.  Compared to the Europe scene, Japanese racing is a joke.  Nissan should bring those cars to race at LeMans and SpaFrancorchamp, Silverstone.

If Infiniti wants to sell Ms to compete with M/35 and AMG, it shoud better start racing with the Infiniti brand right NOW, in Europe.  And it should start winning too.  I doubt the average European would turn down an M3/M5 for an Infiniti that never won a race.   On the other hand, they buy loads of Subarus and Lancers because of their winning tradition on World Rally Champs. 

Infiniti needs to decide if it wants to be a sedated, 21st century Buick (Like Lexus chose to be), or if it wants to challenge the European tradition in the decades to come.

It's okay if they chose to not race with the Infiniti brand.  Just don't ask later why the new G50 or whatever doesn't sell as well as the M3.

[helldorado]

I don't disagree with that, but you have to consider the target markets.  What you're suggesting only has large effect to potential customers in Europe, and would have much less effect here in the US.  It would have even less effect back home in Japan, where these cars are still sold as Nissans.  I don't think they'll invest the budget to do complete seasons if there's not as much possible return there.

You see the same problems with Lexus and Acura as well since Toyota and Honda compete, their luxury brands do not.  Its not a position unique just to Infiniti.

[Rippling Hurst]

I think I got your point, but I hope Infiniti does not listen to the bean counters alone.  I hope Infiniti wants to grow and evolve. 

An Infiniti G50 winning a RACE in DTM would make me feel so much better about the brand.  Imagine a champioship?  Beating a Porsche at LeMans?  Unforgettable.  Aftermarket parts would flow like water here and everywhere.  American BMW M3 owners would look at Infiniti with a different perspective.  Maybe new buyers. 

If you want to make Infiniti a luxury brand on a par with Mercedes and BMW, then racing is a good thing.  If you want to plan for the future, than racing is a good thing.  Now if you don't want to grow, and want to die slowly like Buick did, than keep on doing what it is doing now, no need to change anything. 

[Liquid Platinum M35]

You might have a little tunnel vision too, I mean like Sean said... Toyota doesn't race Lexus, There aren't Acuras in the Indy 500, there are hondas.  GM doesn't race Cadillac, they race Chevy.  So along the same lines, Nissan is going to race Nissan. 

BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, Aston Martin, whoever else you mentioned, they don't have lesser equivalents or they'd probably be racing them, as if you take two supposedly equal cars, G35 and 350Z their intentions are different.  You can't buy a G35 with cloth seats and without a rear seat to save weight.  The 350Z is obviously the more sporty option between the two.  Look at after market support for the items... the 350Z has tons of stuff, the G not nearly as much.  They identify demographic needs and react... there are more after market items for a honda accord than an acura TL, there's more aftermarket items for a Corvette than an XLR.  The list goes on and on.  About the only example I can think of thats opposite is Audi/VW. 

[Mike_TX]

But I think Helldorado has it. Racing - as much as some people may be passionate about it - just doesn't resonate with the MAJORITY of buyers out there. I mean, the Average Joe couldn't care less about a G race car. And Nissan/Infiniti is all about appealing to the majority of buyers.

Add to that the staggering budget necessary to really compete, and they start sneaking out the back door.

Nissan obviously competes in some areas of racing, but it's probably as much for engineering and development as it is for outright domination. And after all, Infiniti is a "pup" brand designed to appeal to the lux and near-lux markets ... not the racing crowd.

Mike

[Liquid Platinum M35]

^ hey that was ME that said that, haha.  You can even apply my statement about M35 sales > M45, Journey sales > Sport sales, to 328 sales > 335i, etc.   I'm sure money isn't the only reason for the disparity.  People would rather get the 30mpg than the 5 sec 0-60mph. 

I don't know how much the racing image does either, I mean, in Nascar they're racing Camry's, chargers, focuses, and impalas.  The only one that seems even remotely sporty is the Impala SS that just came out.

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