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May 24, 2012, 07:54:30 AM

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CARfaq.org > Forum > Campus > Infiniti > General Discussions-Infiniti > Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
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Author Topic: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan  (Read 956 times)
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iggie311
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Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« on: March 06, 2009, 12:13:27 PM »

http://www.autospies.com/news/Infiniti-Essence-coming-in-2010-41691/

The 2009 Geneva motor Show has seen the Nissan luxury brand making waves all over Europe there are not signs that the Japanese automaker is slowing down.
It all started with the unwrapping of the stunning Infiniti Essence Concept, a 2-seater rear-wheel-drive coupe with a turbocharged V6 gasoline hybrid system generating 600hp to match its show-stealing sheet metal.

Then the bombshell was revealed: Infiniti intends to shift its entire lineup to the hybrid system beginning with the M sedan in September of 2010. There are also reports going around that a model derived from the Essence concept will be coming out next year in the European market. Further reports say that Infiniti will give up its gas-electric hybrid setup in the Essence in favor of the diesel-electric hybrid system. Although details about pricing have not yet been released for the model but Nissan said that customers willing to purchase a diesel hybrid would be in the luxury class. Of course, in theory, a diesel-electric setup would be more economical than its gasoline-electric counterpart. There are plans already by Nissan to open a V6 diesel powerplant in its European crossovers in 2010, this could point to the powerplant we can expect in the Essence version.
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 12:36:18 PM »

Interesting.  Has Nissan ever built a diesel before?

I don't like diesels...I prefer revvy engines...let's see how this will pan out.  Hope they keep the gasoline models.
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M S
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 01:28:20 PM »

Nothing wrong with diesels as far as I'm concerned....very successful ROW (rest of world).
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 02:14:15 PM »

I wonder why they started with the M...  WHy not the more popular G sedan or coupe, I see those all over town.
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 02:17:36 PM »

Nissan / Renault announced this diesel a couple months back.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/07/nissan-and-renault-officially-launch-new-diesel-v6/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2009/01/18700_hd_ren2008v6dci_-1280.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2009/01/18017_hd_ren2008v6dcie-1280.jpg

If my math is right, that power curve shows 235 hp and 330 lb-ft of torque at peak.


Nissan also already has a 3.0l inline 4 cylinder diesel they use in the Patrol SUV which I imagine could be leveraged.
Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 02:19:52 PM »

Quote from: br1ank on March 06, 2009, 02:14:15 PM
I wonder why they started with the M...  WHy not the more popular G sedan or coupe, I see those all over town.

M is due for a total redesign so it would be the ideal car to highlight new technology with and easiest to integrate timeline wise.  G just got the mid-model refreshening so I doubt you'll see hybrid technology in it until 2012 model year with a new redesign of the sedan and possibly the coupe in 2012/13.  Especially if they're focusing on any kind of halo car in the interim to slot above the M.
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M S
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 03:43:32 PM »

^Also higher risk of losses if it doesn't go well. The G outsells the M by a huge factor....
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2009, 04:08:49 PM »

Quote from: helldorado on March 06, 2009, 02:17:36 PM
Nissan / Renault announced this diesel a couple months back.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/07/nissan-and-renault-officially-launch-new-diesel-v6/


Very cool video of the engine workings on that link, from the air intake to the turbo, then to the intercooler to the butterflies and injectors, etc., thanks!

Too bad they don't show it vibrating like hell, but I can understand.  Peak torque at from 1500 to 3750rpm and then it's downhill from there.  Top speed at 3750 rpm, probable gear changing at 2000 rpm all the way to the 6th, that if they don't use the lifeless CVT.  A manual transmission with that engine must be frustrating: you rev, change gear, rev, change gears, until you're out of gear (and out of revs).

They can't make anything sporty with that.   Now the whole lineup?  hummm





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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 04:17:07 PM »

RIP Infiniti! Sad
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2009, 05:51:53 PM »

Quote from: helldorado on March 06, 2009, 02:19:52 PM
M is due for a total redesign so it would be the ideal car to highlight new technology with and easiest to integrate timeline wise.  G just got the mid-model refreshening so I doubt you'll see hybrid technology in it until 2012 model year with a new redesign of the sedan and possibly the coupe in 2012/13.  Especially if they're focusing on any kind of halo car in the interim to slot above the M.

Yeah, that is very true considering they need to position a flagship model

Quote from: Ohmster on March 06, 2009, 03:43:32 PM
^Also higher risk of losses if it doesn't go well. The G outsells the M by a huge factor....

Another good point, especially since with the recent price of oil, consumers may not be as concious as they were a few months back.
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 09:15:29 PM »

was there any good news in there?
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2009, 06:09:42 PM »

Funny the next article they have on the topic sounded just like the questions we are asking:
"If Infiniti Doesn't Come Up With Another High Volume Seller Like the G-Series, Are They The Next Company To Sink?"
http://www.autospies.com/news/If-Infiniti-Doesn-t-Come-Up-With-Another-High-Volume-Seller-Like-the-G-Series-Are-They-The-Next-Company-To-Sink-41731/

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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M Sedan
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2009, 08:02:57 PM »

I think the question does not understand how the industry works.  Luxury brands do not depend on high volume sales, but on profit margins.

The G is fine and is enough, provide they sell enough Ms, FXs and Qx with a high profit margin.  They don't need high volume, you can leave that to Nissan.

I remember Lee Iaccoca saying once that what was killing Chrysler was not having a luxury brand like GM does with Cadillac.  High volume is great, but the cost of staying competitive is high.  We need low volume high margins.  One Caddy sold equals to 100 econoboxes or more.


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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M S
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2009, 08:51:23 PM »

Quote from: Rippling Hurst on March 08, 2009, 08:02:57 PM
One Caddy sold equals to 100 econoboxes or more.

You are kidding right? Or is there a decimal point missing in there....What do you think the profit is on a Caddy? Now divide that by 100. Really?
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Re: Infiniti shifting entire lineup to hybrid systems starting with the 2010 M S
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2009, 09:19:25 PM »

No, I'm not, but memory may fail.  Let me pick up some quotes (I can't find the exact one, and the book itself is long gone):


Quote
It used to be said that the tough market, where you don't make a lot of money, is under $10,000. That is 30% of the business. The other 70% is where you can make your profits. I always thought the donnybrook would be in the $10,000-and-under market, and now it's getting tough in every segment. Today everybody wants a piece of the luxury market. First you had the Honda Acuras. Now we're going to have Nissan Infinitis, Toyota Lexuses, all grown upscale. Mercedes is always going to get its chunk, but BMW may not be as well off.

(...)
I think Ford has done a good job, but so much of its profits are on a lot of old stuff -- cars whose basic engineering was done back in the 1970s. Ford's making a lot of money because it has $28,000 Lincoln Town Cars that produce $10,000 each in gross profit. You throw in 110,000 Lincolns at $10,000 profit each, that's $1.1 billion, and the tooling for that car was paid for a decade ago.
(Op-ed in 1988, the book was written in 1984)

So 10 times is not going to cut it.  100 may sound a lot, but I think it's closer to the point.  Also you have to understand that there is an upper limit on how many econoboxes you can sell.  So how many 10k econoboxes you need to get that 1.1 billion gross profit... 

Plus, you have to change the tooling much more frequently too.




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