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May 24, 2012, 02:19:12 PM

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CARfaq.org > Forum > Campus > Lexus > General Discussions-Lexus > Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
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Author Topic: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F  (Read 946 times)
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Liquid Platinum M35
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Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« on: December 05, 2008, 08:30:36 PM »

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Lexus may be throttling back its plans to attack the performance side of its German rivals, but that doesn't mean it won't expand its F-badged lineup in the future. Hirokazu Koga, general manager of the Lexus Development Center and one of the men behind the IS F, told Autoblog that if the automaker goes forward with plans to create a GS F, an LS F could be in the cards.

Renderings and rumors of the GS F have been circulating since last year, but word came down in August that Lexus planned to delay the introduction of the 500+ hp sedan due to the economic downturn and the (then) high price of fuel. Add that to the possible cancellation of the LF-A, and things aren't looking good for Lexus' foray into the world of high performance.

If an LS F model would come to market, only a few drivetrains could be fitted to the hulking sedan to give it the level of performance necessary to carry the F badge. If Toyota does decide to build the LF-A, its V10 powerplant would be a great candidate for the LS F to provide motivation and defer some of the costs of the supercar.

According to two Lexus execs we spoke to, the IS F outsold both the Mercedes-Benz C63 and BMW M3 Sedan last month (we can't confirm, since Lexus doesn't break down sales of the IS by model), but if consumers are accepting the idea of a high-performance Lexus, than other models will surely follow.

Interesting
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 08:37:56 PM »

First i've heard of the IS-F outselling the M/C. Interesting.

Also, I can't imagine why they'd drop the GS-F but persue an LS-F...?
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2008, 09:05:04 PM »

sounded to me like an LS-F was really only a possibility if the GS-F comes to fruition:

Quote
Hirokazu Koga, general manager of the Lexus Development Center and one of the men behind the IS F, told Autoblog that if the automaker goes forward with plans to create a GS F, an LS F could be in the cards.
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2008, 12:10:33 PM »

Lexus need a v12...I guess a v10 would do.  It's the next step, really.

Acura, on the other hand, is hopeless.  Even Hyundai is offering a V8 in the Genesis...
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2008, 04:02:39 PM »

It's pretty well accepted that the next Acura RL will have a V-8, and it's rumored to be 400+hp.

As for an LS-F, I think it's ridiculous. the current LS460 makes 380hp and gets to 60mph in only a little over 5 sec. (depending, of course, on which tester does the run). But the LS isn't supposed to be a performance car like the IS, and I doubt they'd sell many F's if they did make them. I mean, who would buy one, especially if they firmed up the suspension? This ain't a kid's car.

If they want a hotter LS, they could either tune more horses out of the existing motor, bore it, or screw on some turbos. But even as it is, it's an ass-haulin' car.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2008, 04:13:35 PM »

New M5 is going to make 500+hp... I'd say there's a market for a Lexus in that neighborhood
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2008, 07:20:00 PM »

But the M5 could be tackled by the purported GS-F.  An IS-F is what Mike was criticizing.

But why not?  It's all about status and prestige once you get past a certain level.  Why Audi did the A8 with a W12 engine with 450HP?  Did it "need" to?  In what sense?  Why Mercedes and BMW keep their V12?

If you want to buy a BMW 760i, at 440HP, you won't be looking at a Lexus LS 460 @ 380HP.  Not to mention Maybach 540HP v12...

So I'd ask Mike, why do you think Lexus should stop where it is now?  Why not aim for higher end, v12 engines?  Of course, I still think they should keep selling v8's LS, I just wish there were something else there.



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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2008, 09:26:49 AM »

Quote from: Rippling Hurst on December 06, 2008, 07:20:00 PM
But the M5 could be tackled by the purported GS-F.  An IS-F is what Mike was criticizing.


I must have completely misread his statement if he's criticizing the IS-F.... I still can't see that. 

I would agree with him that they should just get more power out of the V8... I dont think a V12 is necessary.  Hell the already have a hybrid that makes some pretty serious horsepower in the LS.
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 11:57:13 AM »

Sorry, 07G35S, I must have missed my medication when I typed that...I meant of course the LS-F, not the IS-F!!

Why not a V-12?  It's not necessary, but the bigger the engine, if you want it to rev and idle smoothly, you must go for a V-12.  I think 5.5/6.0 is right on the limit for a v8, unless you go with very large diameter cylinders (which means a high rev engine, less torque at low end, exactly what you don't want in a luxury car).  It has to do with radius/length relation from cylinder/piston rods (?), it should be ideally 0.3, lower or higher than that, you'll lose primary balance.

Not to mention the noise of a V12!

Here's the last and only Toyota V12: Toyota Century

Quote
The Century was Toyota's most luxurious model at its inception in 1967, and maintained this status throughout the 20th century. Today, it is placed above most of the Lexus lineup in Japan, and remains the most luxurious and expensive model to wear the Toyota badge. The Century is distinguished by different color options than the rest of the Toyota lineup.

Like other cars in the top of the luxury class, the Century is designed with a chauffeur in mind. Hence, the rear seats recline and the front passenger seat has a fold-down center section so that a passenger in the back may stretch his feet forward. The rear seats are equipped with a massage system. The exterior door handles open the doors electrically since the sound of the door being opened mechanically is perceived as being "too obtrusive". The doors do not need to be closed directly, instead the door only needs to contact the latch, causing the door to pull itself completely closed electrically.

The vehicles interior is usually ordered in cloth, not leather, due to the aroma of leather being less desirable and not as quiet as cloth when sat on. The vehicle can be ordered in any color the purchaser desires, however, the favorite colors are usually medium brown, burgundy or royal blue with black exterior paint. White lace curtains are usually installed in the rear window, instead of tinted windows, which are perceived to attract unwarranted attention. The passengers usually like to be seen in a Century, despite Asian tendencies for modesty.

The Century is priced at ¥11,130,000 or approximately US$94,500 (as of 2007[update]). In comparison, the base price for the ultra-luxury 2008 Lexus LS 460 is approximately ¥10,000,000 (US$87,000), [1] with the LS 600h L at ¥15,000,000 (US$125,800).

Although the Century is not exported outside Japan in large numbers, it is used frequently by officials stationed in overseas Japanese offices.

In contrast to other luxurious cars (such as the Maybach or a Rolls-Royce), the Century has not been positioned and marketed as a sign of wealth or excess. Instead, the Century projects an image of conservative achievement.

Some pics:

http://www.motoweb.pl/tapety/pictures/normal/toyota_century_2005_3.jpg

http://forum.avtoindex.com/foto/data/media/73/Toyota_Century_2000_30.jpg

The car is ugly as hell, though, it's one of those cars that never change for decades (like RR used to be).  I like the side mirrors on the hood, though, always loved it!  Omnipresent in all those cheesy Japanese 70's superhero shows with the funniest rubber monsters...Anybody remember Spectremen, Dr. Gori et al?  LOL

Like this: 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/D9WR_dXMJmQ&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/D9WR_dXMJmQ&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0</a>


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Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2008, 12:47:29 AM »

Quote from: Mike_TX on December 06, 2008, 04:02:39 PM
It's pretty well accepted that the next Acura RL will have a V-8, and it's rumored to be 400+hp.

As for an LS-F, I think it's ridiculous. the current LS460 makes 380hp and gets to 60mph in only a little over 5 sec. (depending, of course, on which tester does the run). But the LS isn't supposed to be a performance car like the IS, and I doubt they'd sell many F's if they did make them. I mean, who would buy one, especially if they firmed up the suspension? This ain't a kid's car.

If they want a hotter LS, they could either tune more horses out of the existing motor, bore it, or screw on some turbos. But even as it is, it's an ass-haulin' car.

Just my opinion.

Agreed and disagreed. Performance on the current LS is great, but sometimes people "want more". Look at the AMG line from MB...

You can get:

S550 - 382HP NA V8, 0-60 5.4 - $91K
S63 AMG - 518HP NA V8, 0-60 4.5 - $132K
S600 - 510HP Biturbo V12, 0-60 4.5 - $148K
S65 - 604HP Biturbo V12, 0-60 4.2 - $200K

So, for $132K you get an S63AMG 518HP V8, 0-60 in 4.5.
For $200K, a mere $68,000 more, you get a S65AMG 604 V12, 0-60 in 4.2. $68,000 for +86HP and .3 seconds off of 0-60 time...

Sad thing is - I've seen more than one S65 around here. S63's are more common. S550's are almost as abundant as Camry's.

Somehow, somewhere, there's a market for insanely priced cars just for sheer exclusivety, I guess..?

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Re: Lexus F range could expand to include LS-F
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2008, 12:50:35 AM »

For what it's worth I don't think lexus would venture into the FI market, yet. They are all about "reliability" and drivability. I think throwing an SC or Turbo in the mix without years of R&D could be a very bad move for them. I know TRD offers Superchargers, but that's toyota... Lexus are definitely a lot more conservative, I think. I'm honestly surprised the IS-F made it to market.
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